Chief Edwin Kiagbodo Clark, elder statesman, teacher, lawyer, administrator, Ijaw National leader and leader of the South-South Peoples Assembly. In this interview, the former Federal Commissioner for Information and a Senator of the Federal Republic of Nigeria bared his mind on Nigeria at 52 among other national Issues. Excerpts:
BY HENRY UMORU
HIS reflections on Nigeria at 52
First, let us give thanks to the Almighty God for bringing us to this age. We are 52, that does not mean that we have not made progress, every other country that is 52 now must either be in front of us or behind us. We should thank God, Nigeria still exist as one indivisible country today. During this period of 52 years, we had some obstacles on our way, we fought the civil war for about three years and at the end of it all, we are now a united country.
It is very difficult to see people who have fought war come together as one. But today, we are one country and so we should thank God for that. It is also true that during these 52 years, we started with true federalism initiated by the three founding fathers -Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe; the Sultan of Sokoto, Sir, Ahmadu Bello and Chief Obafemi Awolowo.
Federation of equality
They came together and decided to form a federation of equality, where each region was allowed to move at its own pace; a federation where proper financial arrangement was made, which today people call fiscal federalism; that is whatever you get in your area, you keep part of it and because others are your brothers, you give them a share from the balance and they too will share with you.
That was why late Chief Obafemi Awolowo and Sir Ahmadu Bello had the cocoa and groundnut with other products to their advantage. The price of Cocoa and groundnut were very high at the time while the price of palm produce was very low and that was the only thing produced by their brother, the Eastern Region until 1956 when oil was discovered.
As I said, Tafawa Balewa, the Prime Minister of Nigeria had to send a telegram to the Premier of Eastern Region that they had now joined the club. But today people say that oil found in Nigeria whether it is from the back yard of Chief Edwin Clark belongs to the whole country. We are not saying no, if it doesn’t belong to us, we won’t be sharing in it; but what we are saying is let us have true federalism whereby you produce in your area and contribute to the coffers of the Federal Government. That is what we are saying. That is what is happening in America; that is what is happening in many other places but today you go to the oil producing areas, there is no evidence that oil is being produced in the area.
Recently, during Focus on AIT, Gbenga (the presenter) rolled out the names of those who have been granted oil licences and oil blocs and there is nobody from the oil producing community.
Today, people think that I have oil bloc. I have not even lifted a gallon of kerosene. But now they are talking about over a hundred marketers, how many of them come from oil producing community? very few, one or two of them. All the others come from areas that don’t produce oil. That is not the Nigeria that our founding fathers envisaged. They wanted a state where things were properly organized.
In 1956, Awolowo gave free primary education, Zik could not do it because he had no money to do it, but he was not jealous of Awolowo. Sardauna could not do it. In 1959, what did they do? Television came to the West but we in the Mid-West were not cocoa producers, we were not contributing to the economy of the place, television was not extended to Benin. That was the situation, when Cocoa House was built in Ibadan, Western House was built in Lagos and Ibadan became the industrial area.
Today, the Yorubas are the most sophisticated, the most educated and economically they have it because there was true federalism in place then.
When in 1953, Hon. Anthony Enahoro moved the motion for independence, the Sardauna of Sokoto said, no that he could not and that led to the Northern Conference in 1959 because he thought the regions were moving at their own pace, Will you have that today? That was the secret of the success of Nigeria.
But in 1966, the Army struck and since then, we have been having all sorts of military regimes taking over from one another. Today we are practicing the type of federalism imposed on us by the military, through a military instrument, which is not the real constitution.
Chief Edwin Clark
So today, at the age of 52, we still exist, but there is need, if we are to move forward, we must have a national conference. I am opposed to Sovereign National Conference because of its implications. In 1982, our neighbour, the Republic of Benin tried it and the government was overthrown because the sovereignty rested with the people and that is why many governments don’t want it, Let us have a national conference where every ethnic nationality will be involved. The attendance should be worked out in consultation with the people. It is wrong for the National Assembly to arrogate to itself that they alone can amend the Nigerian constitution or write the constitution for Nigeria. They haven’t got that power. One, most of them were not properly elected and two, there is corruption. But if you have a national conference, the result of the national conference can be given to the National Assembly to enact into law to form a new constitution. It is not possible to write a new constitution now. 1963 constitution had what you call true federalism. So, what we need is to amend the constitution with the consent of the people through a national conference.
His greatest headache about Nigeria
My greatest headache about Nigeria today is corruption. At every place in this country, there is corruption to the extent that a few wealthy people in this country have more money than the nation; they have been talking about people who have been lifting oil, who have blocs, what improvement have they done to their society? Nil. Where is the money they have been stealing? Today they say they have Ministers who cannot care for their own country, they care for themselves, they float companies with which they award contracts to themselves, the evidence of these contracts you don’t see them anywhere right from 1999.
My greatest headache about Nigeria today is corruption. At every place in this country, there is corruption to the extent that a few wealthy people in this country have more money than the nation; they have been talking about people who have been lifting oil, who have blocs, what improvement have they done to their society? Nil. Where is the money they have been stealing? Today they say they have Ministers who cannot care for their own country, they care for themselves, they float companies with which they award contracts to themselves, the evidence of these contracts you don’t see them anywhere right from 1999.
How do you have a president of a country in his tenure of office, who owned part of a company? Today, the Transcorp company which they have now bidded, they are bidding for power plants, today they are mentioning Obasanjo, Babangida, so many other people. The former Minister of Power was made to resign, if these people who governed this country are now the people bidding for these companies what has the Minister done wrong? All he needed to have done was to declare his interest because Obasanjo was in government when he bought over two million shares of Transcorp. It is only in this country that human beings are bigger than the law.
Most of the judges are corrupt, some of the Senior Advocates of Nigeria are living larger than life which is not in conformity with the legal profession. Young lawyers are suffering. So corruption is the bane of this society. Look at the oil cabals; look at the amount of billions of naira that were paid to them. People were demonstrating don’t remove subsidy, what has come up today, people were claiming billions of naira without importing one gallon of fuel. So the secret has been known and I thank the President for having the courage and wisdom to prosecute some of these marketers and some of them are even party leaders.
The EFCC and ICPC cannot kill corruption because some of them are involved in corruption and I have asked for special courts. I have written an open letter to the former Chief Justice of Nigeria, he replied that the problem he was facing is from the prosecution. Lawyers who will file 170 charges against one person and yet they cannot relate them together.
You see former governors parading themselves in the streets of London like celebrities, some of them who have been charged to court, today, are senators in the National Assembly. So, you have governors perpetrating all sorts of evil.
You see former governors parading themselves in the streets of London like celebrities, some of them who have been charged to court, today, are senators in the National Assembly. So, you have governors perpetrating all sorts of evil.
On if he had been talking to President Goodluck Jonathan on the issues
This is not a personal affair that is why I am talking to you. If I am so close to him, I should be able to go to him, even if I am close to him, I should say it out to people in this country to hear. What has Lamorde done, you said you were investigating a governor who produced fraudulent budget to the House, what did you do?
This is not a personal affair that is why I am talking to you. If I am so close to him, I should be able to go to him, even if I am close to him, I should say it out to people in this country to hear. What has Lamorde done, you said you were investigating a governor who produced fraudulent budget to the House, what did you do?
This matter was referred to you by Mr. President, you said you invited the nine principal officers of the House, they refused to come meanwhile the governor was boasting that he has already settled with the EFCC. So, there is corruption everywhere. But I am happy that the present CJN will not tolerate nonsense. I have had an audience with her; any judge that is corrupt; she will deal with the judge. All the SANs, the Nigerian Bar Association should reorganize itself to see that they control those SANs who are only out for money, that is not the style of Rotimi Williams, Fani Kayode, etc.
There is need for the government to take the bull by the horn whereby the government will have the political will to deal with anybody whether in government or not. Any Minister who is not carrying out his job should be shown the way out. A situation whereby ministers are being recommended to the President should be discouraged. President should be expected to pick his ministers, who should be loyal to him and work for him. That is the type of government we want.
On worsening insecurity
On worsening insecurity
This thing has been with us for a long time. Armed robbery, people who assassinate or mafias, they are in other parts of the world, but the ability to deal with them is the most important thing. Boko Haram, we don’t know their faces but Nigerians know they are Nigerians, if they are killing and the government is also killing, I don’ think it makes sense. But the government is seen as being unable to deal with Boko Haram, but I think within the next few months or so we will see the end.
If the president finds that any of the security agents is not doing well, nothing should stop him from removing him. Nobody is sacrosanct and if the president takes this path, I think Boko Haram will soon be a thing of the past.
Like I said, Northern leaders should speak out against Boko Haram and the governors should do their duty in their various states. The federal and state governments and other leaders of Nigeria should deal with the issue.
Whether he agrees that Boko Haram is as a result of injustice and lack of fairness to the North?
If there is injustice, who created it for the people? We have talked about a number of people who are lifting oil, who have oil blocs. How many Northerners have benefited from it? They have no schools, youths are begging for food, the Almajiris. I told you of Awolowo, Sarduana and Zik. I think if the Northern states want to move with other states in the South, they should introduce free and compulsory primary education.
Compulsory primary education
The establishment of Almajiri School is not the duty of the Federal Government. When I was commissioner for education and I discovered that my area was educationally backward, I went to the governor and explained to him, he said please do what you think is right. I said all the female students from primary, secondary to university, should have free education. All the boys who entered the university, you have scholarship.
I built schools, there was only one grammar school in my area, I left about 11 grammar schools, some of them were the best. So, nobody can do things for you. The farming people used to farm is no longer there, everybody is coming to Abuja to collect money from the Federation Account.
Message to Nigerians at 52nd independence anniversary
I have already said so, Mr. President was elected by majority of Nigerians because they have confidence in him. Therefore, they also demand a lot from him, he should not allow a few opposition or individuals or group of people to intimidate or harass him. He should be focused to see that what he planned for the people, the transformational agenda is achieved. He has used one year to make the planning and now is the time for execution. Any minister, who is not doing his job for one reason or the other should be sent out. Two, he should place the interest of Nigeria at heart, he should be focused. There are many Nigerians, who believe that between now and 2015, he will achieve a lot.
I have already said so, Mr. President was elected by majority of Nigerians because they have confidence in him. Therefore, they also demand a lot from him, he should not allow a few opposition or individuals or group of people to intimidate or harass him. He should be focused to see that what he planned for the people, the transformational agenda is achieved. He has used one year to make the planning and now is the time for execution. Any minister, who is not doing his job for one reason or the other should be sent out. Two, he should place the interest of Nigeria at heart, he should be focused. There are many Nigerians, who believe that between now and 2015, he will achieve a lot.
And to the Nigerian people, this country belongs to all of us, that Jonathan is the president of Nigeria is a message to us that no matter whom you are, you can rise to the highest position of your country. Therefore support Mr. President, be patient with his schemes. We should love ourselves and we should not allow religion to divide us.
In America, you have all kinds of people living in America, and today you have a black man as the president of America in the person of Obama. The black American is ruling America, the whites, the blacks have all agreed to support him. Let us have that belief in Nigeria.
What is the guarantee that a national confab will yield desired given pasts attempts?
There was no Conference set up by Abacha as such, it was directed by the military, they did a report and that report will be dotted to suit the convenience of the military and that is why we have the 1979 constitution and the 1999 constitution as military instruments. So as far as I am concerned, those were not national conferences at all.
There was no Conference set up by Abacha as such, it was directed by the military, they did a report and that report will be dotted to suit the convenience of the military and that is why we have the 1979 constitution and the 1999 constitution as military instruments. So as far as I am concerned, those were not national conferences at all.
But the conference summoned by Obasanjo in 2005 was different. At that time, he had a purpose, each state was represented by six members; I was the leader of the South-South delegation and we were about 80 including others nominated by the Federal Government. We later discovered that it was a conference deliberately set up by Obasanjo for his third term purpose and when that was not achieved, what was the result? We walked out because we felt that our views were not listened to. Most of the Northerners want the status quo to remain, nothing changed in Nigeria because it suits them. The South-East was neither here nor there. So, we decided to walk out.
But I can assure you that if the president today who has no other interest, in 2011, he was able to say one man one vote, nobody should die for him because of election, so, if that president today in consultation with leaders of the various ethnic nationalities convene a national conference purposely to look into the constitution of Nigeria and into the basis of our existence, why we should live together, we have never had that conference.
Amalgamation of north and south
It is Lord Lugard that amalgamated North and South, but we have not sat down to say these are the basis of our existence. We want a country where nobody will be superior to the other, a country of equality; the basis of equality should be spelt out. If you have your religion, I have my religion, we must stay as one.
It is Lord Lugard that amalgamated North and South, but we have not sat down to say these are the basis of our existence. We want a country where nobody will be superior to the other, a country of equality; the basis of equality should be spelt out. If you have your religion, I have my religion, we must stay as one.
Will you spearhead the call for national conference now?
That is a very simple thing because the North never wanted a national conference, the West wanted a sovereign national conference, we wanted a national conference, the East wanted it.
That is a very simple thing because the North never wanted a national conference, the West wanted a sovereign national conference, we wanted a national conference, the East wanted it.
Recently,the 17 Southern States met in Uyo in Akwa Ibom, so, we too agreed to meet, so we said we want a national conference, the three regions in the South, the Northerners have also agreed on having a national conference to discuss everything and whatever the physical aspect of Nigeria, electoral system, religion and so on. So, now that we have agreed, it is very easy after independence celebration for the leaders to meet with the president.
In fact the leaders of the Southern Nigeria which we now call Southern Nigerian Peoples Assembly, have a constitution of our own, we are out for the unity of Nigeria, to build bridges, we are not against anybody but it appears that the only way we can relate now is for the three regions in North and South to meet so that we can fashion it out. So, very soon, we will meet with Mr. President and these issues will be canvassed and he has already said that there is need for national dialogue.
